Yesterday it was announced that Jamie Lynn Spears, 16 year old daughter of parenting expert Lynne Irene Bridges and sister of famous professional exhibitionist and semi-pro drug tester Britney Spears, is pregnant. She’s keeping the baby, losing her job as the innocent Zoey Brooks in the children’s hit “Zoey 101.”
Many are a little surprised she didn’t have an abortion.
This child is, at the very least, a significant financial burden. Losing her salary from Nic, alienating her current fans (and their parents) and possibly delaying or deleting a big money music career means the decision to “go through with the pregnancy” is potentially costing Spears millions. All she had to do was quietly get an abortion and no one would have been the wiser.
That’s one wanted baby.
But I wonder…what if instead of a semi-famous, rising star young lady had gotten pregnant, what if a young male fledgling star had gotten a young lady pregnant? What if, instead of wanting to ruin his potential career, he had demanded she get an abortion?
After all, if women have the right to choose, then why don’t men? Why can’t a man decide to end a pregnancy rather than be burdened with inconvenient children? Why can’t a man demand to be released from child support and a paternity claim?
Men in our society are given no choice and are considered pariah if they DON’T support their unwanted children.
Just some food for thought.
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Tags: Abortion, Family, Feminism, Jamie Lynn Spears, Jamie Lynn Spears Pregnant, Men's Rights, Pregnancy, Women's Rights
December 20, 2007 at 3:24 pm
I wish I could remember the exact name, but this case has gone to court at least once and the man lost. Gosh, now I’ll have to try and look it up.
December 20, 2007 at 3:33 pm
Thanks Total Tranny,
If you get a link or a name, let me know. It is an interesting thought exercise about whether or not those proposing abortion rights really are in favor of “equal” rights. I have heard of fathers who opposed a mother aborting the fetus, but never heard this particular argument addressed.
December 20, 2007 at 4:32 pm
Men can make the decision, I have several times. Of course I got a battery conviction for it, but I exerted my paternal right to abort the fetal tissue I built.
December 20, 2007 at 4:40 pm
JP,
Thanks for visiting (again). Why does the conviction not surprise me?
By the way…are you still taking your meds?
December 20, 2007 at 4:43 pm
While I track down the case this link might be helpful…
http://www.cavalierdaily.com/CVArticle.asp?ID=13543&pid=916
December 20, 2007 at 4:54 pm
Here is what I was thinking of…
First a well written legal analysis
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/colb/20060321.html
Although I can’t find the actual title for his case, his case has been nicknamed “Roe v. Wade for Men”- the real case is over child support, so the case is probably titled something like In Re Debay.
The cases is currently in the sixth circuit, U.S. Court of Appeals.
December 20, 2007 at 6:27 pm
Men cannot choose to end a pregnancy because men cannot get pregnant. It’s that simple.
I seriously doubt an unwanted pregnancy would ruin a male actors career. I mean, how much have you heard about the kid’s father? Men can do what they want with their bodies, why should women not be allowed to?
December 20, 2007 at 7:01 pm
The reason men are not able to make the choice is because although they take part in creating the life, women feel like the life growing within them belongs to ONLY them, and therefore only she should have the option. I personally think it is a decision that both individuals should make together. There are a few circumstances that can obviously be the exception to the rule, but those are few and far between.
December 20, 2007 at 7:26 pm
re: Men cannot choose to end a pregnancy because men cannot get pregnant. It’s that simple.
So yet again a situation of all people are equal but some are more equal than others.
It’s the dumbing down of society , whereby bastard children are becoming the norm and ‘ baby mothers ‘ is almost becoming an occupation.
It’s just another example of demonstartring how modern day values and standards are shot to hell.
Social benefit Breeders contribute nothing to society and are a burden upon those that actually work for a living and make informed decisons about the cost of parenting.
December 20, 2007 at 8:51 pm
Karen,
Thanks for your comment, but I don’t think you get it.
I don’t want the fathers to be in charge of the mothers’ choices. Instead, I just believe the fathers should have the option of opting out of fatherhood liabilities (i.e.: child support) if they choose. It is the exact equivalent of what women can choose.
And do you really think an unwanted pregnancy can have no ill effect on a man’s career? That’s incredibly naive. Think for a minute about what impact it would have on John Edwards, for instance, if his mistress is expecting. Imagine as well what it would be like if the host of Blues Clues or a man on Sesame Street was exposed as the father of a love child.
If a woman has the right to choose to end an inconvenient pregnancy, then men ought to be able to opt-out of their financial responsibility if it is inconvenient for them.
December 20, 2007 at 9:06 pm
In most cases a man can walk away and if a woman doesn’t pursuit, he’s off the hook. If the woman decides to give the kid away for adoption or has an abortion, he’s off the hook again. Otherwise you are tied down to your responsibility, same as a woman Sounds like a guys options are the same as a woman’s.
If you could get pregnant or were a woman, you might think differently. I think.
December 21, 2007 at 4:18 am
A man can opt out by wearing a condom. Very simple.
December 21, 2007 at 5:49 am
“A man can opt out by wearing a condom. Very simple.”
Not if the woman has told him she can not get pregnant and he relies on that claim to his detriment. That is the case with Dubay.
Personally I think both Dubay and his child’s mother are scummy. But if a woman can turn over a child for adoption and forgo all legal consequences to raising that child, why can’t a man?
December 21, 2007 at 7:00 am
Call it harsh, but this is just another symptom of the downhill slide of society. “My baby’s daddy” or “my baby’s mama” could be changed to “my wife” or “my husband” if some morals, principals, & self-respect were taught at home.
Keep the legs closed, the pants zipped, & the inconvient child won’t be an issue. If that isn’t possible, use birth control, no matter who says what.
This is coming from a woman who is still married to her son’s father. The son is 27.
December 21, 2007 at 8:02 am
the host of Blue’s Clues hahahaha, I what an apropos suggestion! Poor Steve!
This week I read the book Abortion: a Doctor’s Perspective, a Woman’s Dilemma by Dr. Don Sloan. He isn’t a very good writer, in my opinion, but the book is excellent in that he addresses this issue again and again of whether or not the father’s opinion matters or whether the choice should always be the woman’s. Although it is a very difficult conclusion to come to, his conclusion is that the woman is the only one capable of knowing what to do. This is in contrast to Judge William Rehnquist said in his dissent on Doe v. Bolton: he expressed concern that women would make the decision based on “convenience, whim, or caprice.” (p. 179) In other words, those darn emotional women can’t be trusted with this power to abort or not. If you want to know why men don’t have the right to choose, please read Dr. Sloan’s book.
December 21, 2007 at 8:15 am
madmonq,
The man’s options are no where near the same as a woman’s. While the woman may choose to avoid the financial responsibilities of parenthood using one of the methods you mention, he cannot. If she chooses to have and keep the baby then he has to pay child support even if he doesn’t want anything to do with the child.
Kitty,
Condoms, oral sex, anal sex, or a hand job all avoid pregnancy. With the line of thinking you have no woman should ever have an unwanted pregnancy. In fact, women would be less likely to have an unwanted pregnancy because in addition to knowing if the guy is using a condom, they also know whether they are on the pill, where they are in their cycle, etc.
Total Tranny,
I agree.
Karen,
I pretty much agree, though I wonder what basis we (you and I) have for our belief that marriage is better. My experience and observation confirms traditional norms, but it is hard to say what the long-term outcome will be.
FightingWindmills,
I agree on one level that women are the ones who have to carry the baby. It’s a burden for them physically and financially. Some will choose to go through with the pregnancy, some will not. But men don’t have any way to opt-out of the financial responsibilities of fatherhood, which is my point.
December 21, 2007 at 10:56 am
Whore Church, I appreciate this interesting discussion. It really doesn’t matter if the couple is married or not. Each pregnancy is unique and marriage doesn’t guarantee that the woman is going to be elated about being pregnant. It doesn’t guarantee financial stability or the ability to be a great parent either. You can’t make the judgment (and I see that you are questioning your own assumptions–good for you) that teenage pregnancies are always bad or that married women in their 30’s are always ready and willing to be pregnant. I would tell you my own personal story, but I figure if you read Dr. Sloan’s book you will have a big enough variety of stories that it will become a more complicated issue for you. Your point is addressed in the book. There’s actually an abortionist whose wife gets pregnant and he wants her to abort but she doesn’t want to (chapter 8). He thought he was always in defense of a woman’s right to choose until it affected his own family and that’s when he wanted a choice.
December 21, 2007 at 11:47 am
Well, I’m pro-life all the way, so I am glad she didn’t terminate pregnancy. As far as Abortion Rights go, it is rather strange that only the woman has teh decision for terminating something she could not make on her own.
If two people put their hands together and create anything, it is always considered unfair if one of the two scraps it without the others’ consent. Women should not have a monopoly on the unborn child simply because it is forced to exist within their wombs.
In the end, however, I think that terminating a pregnancy is = to murder. Life is never a fair thing, but two wrongs don’t make a right. I understand that many people do not consider an unborn fetus a person, but I can never figure out exactly why.
December 21, 2007 at 2:02 pm
“…With the line of thinking you have no woman should ever have an unwanted pregnancy.”
No, what I am saying is the guy DOES have a choice in the matter.
December 21, 2007 at 2:25 pm
Kitty,
So if I get six women pregnant over the next year I can choose not to pay any child support?
A woman who does not want to have the expense of a baby can get an abortion. If she chooses not to the father–whether he wants to or not–is required by law to pay child support. In some states if the mother or child receives any welfare benefits the state pursues the father to repay those benefits–even if the mother doesn’t want them to.
How then does the guy have a choice in the matter?
(Actually if I get six women pregnant over the next year I won’t have to pay child support because my redhead would kill me.)
December 21, 2007 at 4:03 pm
You are talking about a guy getting a second chance at the matter.
Forcing a woman to go have an abortion could end up making her sterile.
Forcing a woman to carry a child could end up with her losing her life in childbirth.
These are two unfair consequences a guy really doesn’t have to deal with.
So yeah, a woman gets more chances to opt out, but she also has a lot more risks in the matter.
Nature is unfair.
December 21, 2007 at 5:22 pm
That Casey asshole was probably a brokeass. While Jamie is preparing to fill the alcohol filled shoes of her big sister, Casey is training to fill the unbuttoned unwashed pants of K-Fed.Btw, I’ve got on my blog the sneak peek into Lynne Spears’s Parenting Book
December 21, 2007 at 5:51 pm
A man should always wear a condom. Getting someone preggers is the least that can occur when having naked relations. There’s AIDS and i read syphyllis is making a comeback.
i think the reason that men don’t factor into the keep it/abort it desicion is that when a woman is the biological mother, that’s it. It doesn’t require tests or testimony- she’s the one. On the other hand, anyone could be the father of a child.
Also, the primary care of a child- physiaclly, emotionally, spiritually and mentally- socially & culturally falls to the mother of a child therefore rendering unto her much authority.
But i think the biggest reason why men can’t exercise their rights is because the baby is all inside the mother’s body. Other folks don’t really have control over that. We each rulers over our own bodies which brings me back to the condom idear.
December 21, 2007 at 6:58 pm
That is the most important time to make a choice, back at the naked sex time.
You can’t abort HIV.
December 22, 2007 at 1:43 am
I like how this conversation almost got into the concept of marriage. After nine and a half years of marriage, some things have come about that ended in me putting an end to a lot of dishonesty I’ve kept, namely, I’ve come out and begun to accept that I’m gay. The circumstances between my wife and I are in no way typical of the average married gay man story, and we are not ending our marriage at this point. What we are doing is looking at the entire concept of marriage and family, and we are figuring out what is best for us.
Marriage has not been what we perceive it as throughout history. In fact, what we view as marriage is an ideal that has arisen in the last couple of centuries, having evolved from an extremely patriarchal concept. In general, women are no longer viewed as chattel or as property of their husbands. As husbands we no longer expect a dowry of textiles and/or farm animals as our price for taking a useless daughter off of someone’s hands.
While I find this discussion interesting, I think a more valuable discussion would lead us to educate our children, boys and girls, about their bodies and about sexuality. Abstinence is a ridiculous dream that will never, ever, ever be practicable outside of ultra evangelical homes, and even there it’s a sham of parents hiding their heads in the sand and shouting above the noise of truth. We are sexual beasts. We fuck. We fornicate. Teaching children not to is stupid and counterproductive. If we want our children to be safe we must give them the truth. We must be honest. We must tell our sons to be safe and respectful. We must teach our daughters to be strong and to exert their will.
Pulling out is not birth control, and if your child doesn’t know that then you have failed.
December 22, 2007 at 6:47 am
“Abstinence is a ridiculous dream that will never, ever, ever be practicable outside of ultra evangelical homes, and even there it’s a sham of parents hiding their heads in the sand and shouting above the noise of truth. We are sexual beasts. We fuck. We fornicate. Teaching children not to is stupid and counterproductive.”
Don’t project your lack of self-control on the rest of us Sam. Just because you found that expectation unattainable doesn’t mean others are incapable of achieving abstinence until marriage.
December 22, 2007 at 11:05 am
“Don’t project your lack of self-control on the rest of us Sam. Just because you found that expectation unattainable doesn’t mean others are incapable of achieving abstinence until marriage.”
I don’t view it as a lack of self control and in fact have been fairly sexless for long enough that it’s not even an issue. There are obvious valid points to abstaining from sex outside of marriage, but there are obvious failings in that concept when confronted with reality.
I was taught abstinence as a child, but I was never taught about sex. I couldn’t possibly know what it was I was abstaining from, and when I finally did begin to have sex I had no concept of it in any real and meaningful way. Abstinence did not teach me to protect myself or to respect my partner.
Finally, I like how you cherry picked that one bit from everything else I said. How about the parts where marriage is a sham or the parts about honestly teaching kids about sex even if you expect them not to? Are you one of those Christians that assume if kids know about sex they will then rush out and have sex?
December 22, 2007 at 1:13 pm
“Are you one of those Christians that assume if kids know about sex they will then rush out and have sex?”
Nope. I think they should know all the risks associated with various types of sexual behavior as well as the preventative measures and their respective abilities to prevent pregnancy and STD’s. We reach for the ideal like but we prepare for a far less than perfect world.
And apologies for my tone in the prior comment. I was kind of rushing through comments and it didn’t quite come out the way I wanted it to.
December 23, 2007 at 9:52 am
Sam,
Thank you for being so open. That takes guts.
December 23, 2007 at 11:39 pm
Interesting.
December 24, 2007 at 11:15 am
Brit has gone pro on the drug testing thing.
December 24, 2007 at 9:18 pm
Part of the problem is “the woman’s right of her body” and “the woman’s sexual freedom”. Um, really, do we need all these kind of freedoms? What is freedom, really? Without having clear boundaries and laws to live by, we are no longer free, but we become chaotic animals at best. With all these “sexual freedoms” and “liberties” we now have, many young people are nothing more than sexually perverted creatures. What is wrong with living within clearly drawn-out boundaries? I waited till (almost) marriage to even have protected sex. I, by my own decision alone, thought not once about how “repressed” it was to be without having sex. Yes, I was made fun of for my virginity, and I even had people fired and scolded at work and school for pressuring me to have sex, especially with the same sex (because I am bisexual).
And, no, I am not a conservative, I am not a Christian, I am not a fundamental of any religion. I grew up secular, my parents are moderate in social norms and values, and I am atheist. And I think certain “freedoms” we have are not worth it or really freedoms at all, but merely disillusions.
December 27, 2007 at 6:14 pm
THis is fucking stupid.
DUH she’s not going to get an abortion, she’s not one of those dumbshit murderers! I’m pregnant and 16 and would rather kill an abortionist than my own baby, stupid fucker.
December 27, 2007 at 6:18 pm
and men shouldnt be able to choose, I wouldnt let the father tell me what to do. He stuck his dick in me, he made the choice then and there
December 28, 2007 at 4:18 pm
Ideally men should have a say, but clearly the ultimate choice should be the woman’s since she is the one who is going to have to carry the baby for 9 months and give birth or get an abortion.
Men can’t opt out of supporting their children because of public policy concerns: the State would rather a child’s parents pay to raise her than that taxpayer money be used. If you went into court to get out of paying child supprt by saying “i didn’t want to have a baby, i told her to have an abortion” the judge will laugh in your face.
December 28, 2007 at 6:58 pm
It’s not an easy topic to read about or to discuss, but I am reading another book about the abortion debate: Crusaders by Marian Faux. If you feel really strongly about abortion and can’t understand the other side’s reasoning, it is worthwhile to read books like this and see the legal history behind our current policies.
I used to live in Japan. There, abortion is part of their birth control spectrum. It is not considered a hideous crime like it is here in the US. They have a way of looking at life and justice that is much different than our American way. They believe that sometimes an action doesn’t have to be “good” or “right” in order to restore harmony. Sometimes, like with abortion, no one “wins,” everyone loses because it is a tragic and unfortunate situation; nevertheless harmony is restored.
Please see here: http://www.being-a-broad.com/en/living_information/health/abortion
December 31, 2007 at 2:42 am
I think it’s the fact that often many men want a woman to keep a child not for her, but for themselves. Yet when they don’t want it, it is exactly that, them trying to cop out of financial responsibility’s. There’s also the fact that too me the woman actually having the child, carrying it, caring for it…it is more hers, than his. She’s the one that has to suffer through the birth, and often has to care for the child much more extensively than the man.
It’s really a complicated issue, I hope to never have to experience it.
January 2, 2008 at 7:43 pm
When we decide to destroy a human life… it’s still a human life, no different than a full grown adult except that the fetus didn’t have any chance. This is not a matter of christianity because I have no religion, it’s a matter of murder. And BreAnne, I’m sorry honey but you aren’t helping yourself any by using all those very harsh words… by your comments you have proven to me that you are a 16 year old slut with a small IQ.
January 7, 2008 at 2:35 am
“And BreAnne, I’m sorry honey but you aren’t helping yourself any by using all those very harsh words… by your comments you have proven to me that you are a 16 year old slut with a small IQ”
LOL! Don’t ya just love people who talk out of their ass like that? “Abortion is murder and murder is bad ALL the time ….except of course, if it is an abortionist who I think deserves to be murdered and then… its ok because they are a murderer!!! *rolls eyes* Well what do you expect from another dumbshit teen whore who has a picture of her skanky ass on a MySpace page, for the whole world to see, along with a very proud announcement that she another knocked up piece of underage trash. Good thing she is so morally sound though. hahahaha
January 7, 2008 at 3:05 am
I say a fetus is NOT a human life. It is just a piece of meat and it doesn’t care one bit if it is terminated or not! Get over it. It means nothing! I know…you pro- lifers say I am a sick murderer, but I say you are all just overly emotional fools, too busy being champions for your righteous, spiritual cause to actually be down-to-earth and practical about the matter of whether an unplanned and unwanted baby, that in all likelyhood WILL end up with at least some form of neglect, if not worse, really should be brought to full term in the real, cruel world just because someone says it’s “right”
Who is right anyway? Is there a way know? No there isn’t. Because there is no “right” There is just opinion. So I say just leave us all to our own bodies and fetuses and accept reality.
January 9, 2008 at 8:58 pm
I totally agree with TTHM except in the cases of extreme matters, murder is wrong ALL the time and little kids that can’t even keep thier legs shut should not speak about matters that involve an IQ over 70. Murdertoyou… I’m sorry to disagree but adoption is always an option to abortion, a fetus IS a human life that would care given a choice to live but unfortunatly they don’t have that luxury.
January 9, 2008 at 9:46 pm
i agree with TTHM.
i told my daughter that though abstinence is ideal, it is difficult to practice. i did not wait until marriage and though i regret it, i am not trying to force my daughter to do something i couldn’t model myself. i explained all of this to her.
Even if she is rolling her eyes, even if i feel a little embarrassed, i want her to know that protection is vital, a must, not only to be able to keep her youth but to live. i told her all about condoms because the thing is yes, abortion is an option, as well as adoption and keeping the baby, but why go through all of that turmoil when in about the thirty seconds it could be prevented by slipping one on?
January 14, 2008 at 10:33 pm
C is exactly right, even though there are several options to an unwanted pregnancy protection is always the best. It is out human nature to have sex and even though abstinence seems the best way to prevent an unwanted child, it’s just not likely that we as society are gonna follow it.
January 15, 2008 at 10:48 am
LOL! We can’t have sex as a society. That’s exactly why each woman deserves to make her own choices. The preacher can’t make it for her, nor can the doctor, nor the POTUS, nor the governor, nor the lawyer.
January 16, 2008 at 7:25 am
This is funny they have a user generated poll on weather or not she should keep the baby over at http://www.jamiesnewbaby.com
Link:http://www.jamiesnewbaby.com
March 17, 2008 at 11:03 pm
well, then he should were a condom and make sure it doesn’t happen. you lay a woman down, what do you think is going to happen so step up dead beat men.
March 18, 2008 at 6:05 am
“you lay a woman down, what do you think is going to happen”
Whenever I lay a woman down I am thinking about the Biblical requirement to “go forth and multiply.” Any form of birth control (even the rhythm method) is a direct violation of God’s law.
The union of man and woman is not supposed to be a carnal pleasure – that was a by-product of Eve bringing about the fall. Her womb was cursed after she tricked Adam into the original sin. As a result, God gave man dominion over his woman since she could not conduct herself righteously.